Since this past year has begun, it has been my pleasure to chat online in the local Minneapolis Star-Tribune's web site with folk who are interested in what Wicca and Paganism is all about. Originally, I set up A chat there as a way to inform folk about local events. However, very quickly, it became a fascinating forum for discussion and debate. Here is a transcript of what went on...

I'm sure you can defend yourself against these comments--I welcome the opportunity to begin a true discussion--pagan to atheist.

While I know "neo-paganism" covers a lot of ground, I've often found that folks that call themselves pagans are really just Judeo/Christians who have traded in god and Jesus for a variety of other gods/goddesses and assorted fairies and spirits. They seem to disown the pagan relgions of the past (with their rigid belief systems and stringent traditions) and have invented their own brand of new-age fluff, much which involves burning candles, gazing at crystals, and playing at doing rituals and ceremonies with like minded folk. Not that there's anything inherently wrong with that--but it's pretty shallow and appears to be rooted in nothing more than an 'I'm OK, your OK' feel good daze.

Self delusion is an easy state of mind to sucumb to--which is the only reason why I think religions of any sort are sucessful at all. But paganism does appear to go one step beyond the absurdity that encompasses the mainstream religions and into a real fairy tale land of make believe.

I realize there are some that claim to be following the "real" ancient pagan religions (druids, norse, witchcraft)--yet, we all know the source material doesn't exist, so their ancient religion is just as made up and embellished as neo-paganism.

Pagans appear to like to think of themselves as "superior", enlightened whereas the rest of us are lost in the dark. Yet, I would suggest the egomania runs just as strong, if not more strongly, among those that adopt paganism as those that mildly follow the religion they were born into.

The superiority complex that some Pagans have is indeed a problem. But you have to understand that many of them have come from abusive situations (I'd wager that about 60 or 70% fall into this broad category) where their thoughts, ideas or concepts of self were cut to ribbons by narrow-minded members of mainstream religions or social structures.

Not a convert, I respect your gentle communication techniques and wish you well.

...which Greek and Roman "historian's accounts" were you referring as that basis of your beliefs?

What I find most interesting about all Indo-European religious traditions is the recurrent theme of a concept of 'our father', no matter where members of this 'tribe' ended up residing.

"As Above, So Below"

Just about every religion I know of has a father figure. But -what is often overlooked - are the mother and female figures that were so prominant in the ancient world.

I tend to see wiccan/pagan individuals as engaging in the Wisdom of the Rustic fallacy in the realm of spirituality. Because it's "simpler," "noninstitutionalized," and "natural" it is perceived as being more sincere and therefore preferable to mainstream religions. And because it's personal, it allows those individuals who so desire to "empower themselves:" one can be the Highest Priest of one's own religion.

I think the study of paganism allows for a clearer view of humankind as it is and was, versus the never acheived, pie-in-the-sky view we get from major religions. With the pagan myths and historical data, we can see a people that relished the human condition and didn't try to deny it. I appeciate the honesty.

I spent a few summers traipsing from one circle of standing stones to another, meditated on top of Glastonbury Tor, and communed with the "energies" that travel along the ley lines. Believe me, I really did want to believe and lead a magical, mystical existence. But, I just couldn't convince myself, try as I might. I suspect that a person needs to be indoctrinated while young into accepting any "leap of faith" philosophy--that didn't happen to me, and I remain skeptical.

Meanwhile, what's your view on the Wiccan Rede and the Three-fold law. Are the two compatatble, or do they conflict in your mind?

The contradictions I see between the Wiccan Rede and the Three-fold law has to do with the issue of subjective morality. Some consider harm is being done to them even though the person causing the harm thinks they are doing good--ie, the alleged Unabomber and and his defense lawyers.

Another problem I see is that I think it's probably impossible to go through life without causing harm to someone, somewhere. Seen in a certain light, even Mother Teresa was evil if one considers her actions and approval of certain dogma as perpetuating poverty and misery rather than easing it.

Even more mundane matters, like when we buy some cheap plastic thingy at target, we endorse the subhuman, slave conditions of the poor in places like Indonesia and Mexico. I know that, yet I buy cheap stuff the same as everyone else--and choose to ignore the moral issues.

From what I've seen, many pagans are just as attuned to Alister Crowley's "do as thou wilt will be the whole of the law" as the Wiccan Rede.

The discussion ended at this point with respect and understanding of all positions. Thank you to all who participated and showed interest in an area that has traditionally been dealt with in ignorance and fear. While the actual chat topic has "timed out" on the Star Tribune website, you can still find many conversations there about relevant issues for those of our community and many, many others.